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CC.LDN.wiki is Climate Camp London's Website – a community written-&-run resource empowered by the wonderful wiki goodness of MediaWiki software.

This page is playing host to a variety of discussions about adopting a well structured website to which we can all contribute and edit. You are welcome to contribute to these discussions, and we encourage you to do so:

  1. just click on the [ edit ] button to the right of an Edit This Heading To Contribute To This Discussion – sez YourNameHere heading
  2. copy-n-paste the heading once (so the next person has a heading to edit)
  3. change the uppermost Edit This Heading To Contribute To This Discussion to the title of your contribution (like the Subject: line of an email), and replace YourNameHere with, er, your name, there ;-)
  4. type in or copy-n-paste in your contribution to the discussion
  5. click on the (Save Page) button
  6. that's it - you're a wiki editor, and a contributer to CC.LDN.wiki (thank you!)



Discussion: A Wiki Website for Climate Camp London – Pros, Cons & Issues

A Wiki Website Could Boost Our Collaboration – sez Dalinian

We obviously move a lot of structured information around on the climatecamp-london list (which is useful, necessary and great), posts from which often contain links to other net-based info and resources. Trouble is, this way of handling info-in-bulk can be psychologically overwhelming, socially inefficient and suboptimally effective. It makes each of us responsible for maintaining some kind of more-or-less structured filing system for an ever-growing mound of data, in such a way as to allow easy recall (or give up and fall back on the list archive at lists.riseup.net). For questions like "who's coordinating in Wadsworth?", "when is our next Green Alliance liason meet up?", "how are we getting to Manchester?", or "where are the arm tubes?", it can be very taxing to search and rescue answers from a massive mound of incoming emails.

I suggest there is a better way forward. If we collaborate in creating, running and using a well-structured website, then our ever-growing mound of data can become an expanding and ever-more refinded knowledge base - and one that makes browsing, navigating and finding specific information as accessible and easy as possible. In addition, we can:

  • illustrate - by including images, video and audio on any page
  • discuss - we could reduce time pressure in Tue meetings by holding persistent, multi-person text-&-multimedia public discussions online, extended over time, as you might do in an online forum like, eg: libcom http://libcom.org/forums ; examples:
  • a three person collaboration, eg: copy-writer, graphic designer and art director producing a poster design (all equal-but-different)
  • working group discussion, eg: determing the aims, purpose, remit, scope, strengths, weaknesses, needs and working methods of a newly formed working group
  • page discussion, eg: using a page's attached Discussion tab to mull over issues of relevancy, style, content, interconnectedness, duplication, deficits, etc.
  • educate - by publishing structured self-paced instruction text-&-multimedia tutorials, and tutorial series - meeting many skill-sharing needs
  • interconnect - by hotlinking to other self-generated and exterallly sourced online resources, such as:
  • documents - eg: stickers, flyers, leaflets, posters, briefings, reports, etc. - uploaded in Portable Document Format, including their own images, hotlinks, chapters and sections
  • images - eg: logos, stencils for spray painting, graphics, photographs, mash-ups - uploaded in a variety of appropriate graphic file formats, optionally hotlinked to image-handling websites (such as flickr, Panoramio, Picasa, etc.)
  • video - eg: activist-shot, NGO-produced and campaign-related video embedded on the page, from, eg: YouTube, Google Video, etc,
  • maps - eg: hotlinks to precise locations in, eg: Google Maps (including aerial/satellite imagery), Google Earth (including animated fly-over tours), etc.

IMO the most easy-to-use and widespread net technology for collaborative community websites is MediaWiki http://www.mediawiki.org - the software underpinning Wikipedia http://www.wikipedia.org (over 10 million articles in 253 languages, with 2,549,364 articles in English - all of them written, edited and maintained by somebody like you; currently the 8th most visited website on t'InterWeb), and its sister projects Wiktionary, Wikiquote, Wikibooks, Wikisource, Wikimedia Commons, Wikispecies, Wikinews, Wikiversity, Wikimedia Incubator and Meta-Wiki.

dalinian 00:03, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


Good Idea – sez Ben

Well I think it's a great idea Tim - I will be working on a CCS explanation to put up on here in the next few weeks.

I definitely think that it is important as a group to learn from all the other movements and organisations that have come before so that we can move forward, rather than having to re-learn everything. This can be a great place to develop a knowledge base.

It can also be useful to create discussions on topics, and in action groups so that when the meetings come around they can run much more smoothly - definitely a point to be made on Tues.

However, I would like to say that I think it should be used as well as the email lists, maybe as a place to record the discussions that happen on there. The email list is a real push tool- I for one love seeing all the passion from people on a daly basis, and think that if this was the only form of communication then it would put a lot of new people off.

BenHart33 13:39, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


We Need to get a Calender Set Up – sez Ben

We need to get a calender set up somewhere (the Wiki) so we can plan things around all the events that are going on - inc all the stuff mentioned the other Sat.

BenHart33 (transcribed by Dalinian) 19:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


Edit This Heading To Contribute To This Discussion – sez YourNameHere



Discussion: Free Web Hosting vs. Going Advertisement Free (possibly a false dichotomy)

A Platform Without So Much Advertising – sez Jody

[CC.LDN.wiki is a] Good idea, but if you are going to set something like this up, I think we would be better served to find a platform without so much advertising.

Jody B (transcribed by Dalinian) 09:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


Reducing Your Onscreen Ads & Sticking With Wikia For Now – sez Dalinian

Thanks for the prompt response, Jody. Your antipathy to advertising is something I share wholeheartedly. Thankfully, a quick solution is presented in a green bar:

____________________________________________________________________
CC.LDN.wiki

Welcome to Scratchpad - New user? Please create an account (free).

{Annoying Intrusive Advert}

[CLIMATE CAMP 08 banner graphic]

"Calling Climate Criminals To Account!"

Welcome to CC.LDN.wiki, a Direct Action Campaign Collaboration
from Climate Camp London in the UK that anyone can edit.

____________________________________________________________________

Say goodbye to intrusive ad misery by simply:

  • clicking on the create an account (free) link
  • filling out the quick-n-easy Create account form
  • checking Remember my login on this computer if appropriate
  • clicking on the (Create account) button
  • er...
  • that's it!

When you're logged in to your Wikia scratchpad account, those annoying page top ads do not appear. And if you chose Remember my login on this computer, you'll not have to login for each session – a cookie keeps you persistently logged in. So now you see what I intended:
____________________________________________________________________
CC.LDN.wiki

[CLIMATE CAMP 08 banner graphic]

"Calling Climate Criminals To Account!"

Welcome to CC.LDN.wiki, a Direct Action Campaign Collaboration
from Climate Camp London in the UK that anyone can edit.

____________________________________________________________________


If and when CC.LDN.wiki gets the green light of consensus, I'll detail the advantages to individuals and to CC.LDN of our all being logged in to our Wikia scratchpad accounts when using CC.LDN.wiki in a section on the Using CC.LDN.wiki page.

I would soooo love a world free of the intelligence-insulting gargantuan waste of time, creativity and resources that advertising and marketing impose on our society. And I'd like CC.LDN.wiki hosted for free by a reliable, well-resourced MediaWiki hosting service. And gaining access to the latter by compromising on the former (ie: getting free high-quality hosting paid for by some onscreen advertising) may help bring closer the revolution that consigns the current pro-capitalist advertising and marketing 'industries' to the distbin of history.

More concretely, if we begin in the Wikia scratchpad and gain a dozen editors, we will most likely be able to get our wiki 'promoted' to a full-blown Wikia website, with our own domain name such as CC-LDN.org, and minimal advertising when logged in. For high and low end examples respectively, see:

If anybody knows of a free high quality MediaWiki hosting service with zero advertising for end users, onscreen or otherwise, please let me know. If nonsuch exits, and we decide to move forward with a CC.LDN website underpinned by high quality MediaWiki hosting AND have zero advertising for end users, then we may have to pay for our hosting service (lots of contingent clauses, there!). As a gift economy aficianado (see Creating Our Future World One Gift At A Time – http://tinyurl.com/gift-economy), my preference is for compromising on my contempt for adverts to gain free high quality wiki hosting for CC.LDN; and your milage/opinion may vary.

dalinian 12:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


Edit This Heading To Contribute To This Discussion – sez YourNameHere



Discussion: CC.LDN.wiki - Discover now, Discuss online, Decide tomorrow

Only Connect: A Community Written-&-Run Website as An Organising Hub – sez Dalinian

At our post-camp gathering on Sat 06 Sep 08, I observed that a great deal of collaboration by a large number of activists was becoming an obvious feature of our future development as the Climate Camp London neighbourhood - and that we could therefore benefit greatly from some online social collaboration support. So I suggested a wiki-based website, got sufficient supportive encouragement to take the idea forward, and created a provisional CC.LDN.wiki in the Wikia wiki-farm's scratchpad domain.

BTW, don't be put off by the annoying intrusive adverts - just get rid of them by a quick-n-easy sign-up process; see: Reducing Your Onscreen Ads above for a step-by-step How To...

A wiki is simply a website that anyone can edit. So for instance we can use it as:

  • an Action coordination facilitator, eg: see our Solidarity page for two Rossport Solidarity Actions, and backgrounder info links
  • a knowledge base:
  • for documents-as-web-pages, illustrated with images, maps and video
  • for links to relevent information on t'InterWeb
  • for interlinking with related organisations and people - community building and networking
  • a collective calender of events, to help coordinate our efforts efffectively in spacetime
  • a depository for e-resources, eg: pictures, graphics, stencils, presentations, audio recordings, videos, etc.
  • a directory for real world resources, eg: banners, placards, arm tubes, DVDs, tripods, bales-o'hay, etc.
  • a skillshare directory, eg: banner-makers, photographers, counsellers, musicians, videographers, DJs, video-editors, comics, etc.
  • a educational facilitator, interlinking self-written and external learning resources
  • a space for discussion and debate, eg: this very page, and this item in a Discussion: A Wiki Website for Climate Camp London – Pros, Cons & Issues
  • a {stuff you've seen groups using a web site for and thought, "Hey, that'd be neat if we could get a Climate Camp London website to do that stuff!"}

It's not panacea or a horn of plenty, and it's not a replacement for the use of email lists or online social networking at group-wide and working-group levels (though it could lighten email list traffic to many "see htttp://tinyurl.com/cc-{AAAA}" type msgs). But IMO, since a community written-&-run website (no [web]masters, no [data]slaves) could benefit our Climate Camp London in so many ways, I'd be shocked to see the idea Blocked, and surprised to encounter copious Stand Asides.

But to be derive the full range of benefits available, we need to develop a positive consensus on adopting CC.LDN.wiki as a collective organising facilitator of the way we operate as a group. Sure, me and a handful of techies can try to upload-&-link all the informational traffic from email list exchanges, but frankly, I've more politically effective things to do (like avoiding such a [data]slave hell!). However, if we commit as a community to learning wiki mark-up (simple and easy - you can try it out for yourself in minutes at http:/tinyurl.com/cc-sandbox ), and CC.LDN.wiki becomes owned by all of us, because we've all written a part of it and use it to meet many different collaborative needs, then I really do think we'll be setting ourselves on a win-win-win upward spiral.

You can contribute to the online discussions around our CC.LDN.wiki on its About page, which is where you are right now.

  1. just click on the [ edit ] button to the right of an Edit This Heading To Contribute To This Discussion – sez YourNameHere heading
  2. copy-n-paste the heading once (so the next person has a heading to edit)
  3. change the uppermost Edit This Heading To Contribute To This Discussion to the title of your contribution (like the Subject: line of an email), and replace YourNameHere with, er, your name, there ;-)
  4. type in or copy-n-paste in your contribution to the discussion
  5. click on the (Save Page) button
  6. that's it - you're a wiki editor, and a contributer to CC.LDN.wiki (thank you!)

dalinian 02:19, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


Caution: Beware Splitting the Luddites from the Techies – sez Roger

As a non-techie, I confess I'm feeling somewhat guarded about this whole wiki thing.

We live in an age of information overload, thanks to information techology having raced ahead at extraordinary pace, without any commensurate increase in the human brain's ability to absorb all this information. You'll already have started to sense where I'm coming from, but I guess I have to "declare my dis-interests". I'm a self-confessed luddite, a reluctant user of email and the internet (especially internet forums - as far as I can tell they merely serve to bring out the worst in human nature), I am a total avoider of social networking sites and I don't own a TV. As for mobile phones, I absolutely refuse to own one of the bloody things. I don't believe they have made the world a better place, they've just made it a more neurotic, disorganised and ruder place. I'd be happy to compromise on accepting a 90% reduction in car use but I'd dearly love to see mobiles disinvented altogether (and yes, I'm a bloody hypocrite because I've ended up using one of the bloody things at the climate camp itself).

By now you'll not be surprised to find that I'm the sort of person who is deeply sceptical when I hear that there is some wonderful techological solution to the problems of information overload created by all the previous information-overload technologies we've invented! I voiced exactly this scepticism at work recently when we were deciding whether to install an intranet. Now we've got it, the realisation is rapidly spreading that it's a bloody disaster, far more so than even I had predicted it would be (and that's really saying something).

So, to the techies on this list, my plea is this: please don't assume that what works for you and your fellow techies will work for us luddites! I had a browse around the link Dalinian circulated earlier. However, my lack of any experience whatsoever of using any other wiki-type system meant that I couldn't begin to envisage what this skeletal wiki might feel like once it's got some activity and content. I'm therefore in no position to judge whether or not it will be useful, or whether I will or won't get used to it one day.

In any case, the length of time it would take to get used to something this will be crucial. If it's going to take a while for us luddites to get used to it, we probably shouldn't be adopting it at all - at least not yet, not until/unless similar techology has become sufficiently widespread for people to have got used to it in other areas of their life. Because if we start adopting new technologies which require significant explanation/exploration for any luddite trying to join the group, that is likely to be a really serious barrier to entry. If the impression we give is that you to be a total computer nerd to join us, many people simply won't bother.

So, if we do proceed, I say we need to do so with a great deal of caution. If this technology really does turn out to be very user-friendly and easy to learn, then I can certainly image the possible advantages - e.g. presumably it would allow people to distribute and receive information in a flexible way so that they could follow threads/topics which interested them and to ignore those which didn't. On that basis, if others (including non-techies as well as techies) feel this is the way to go, I'd be prepared to give it a try. However, I stress, "a try"! I'd certainly want to reserve the right to revisit any decision to transfer the group's main info-exchange onto such an unfamiliar technological platform. The last thing we need is for information flow to become the preserve of the techies whilst the luddites are left missing out on key discussions.

Best wishes

Roger G (transcribed by Dalinian) 01:43, 16 September 2008 (UTC)


Edit This Heading To Contribute To This Discussion – sez YourNameHere

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